If there was ever a clear example of the generation gap between those who have been steeped in digital culture from the start and those who have had to adopt it later in life, the current debate between 37signals and Don Norman is it.

I took note of the original article in Wired on 37signals and I know that Don Norman had weighed in with accusations of arrogance, because he was already quoted in the article. Experientia’s post alerted me to the fact that it’s still going on, and on.

I interviewed Jason Fried back in 2005 and didn’t find 37signals arrogant at all.

What’s weird is that I think Norman and 37signals are actually talking about the same stuff, and even sharing the same opinions in general, they just have different ways of expressing them, and neither side seems to understand the other. Personally, I find Norman’s views on simplicity versus complexity erratic and he too often equates simplicity with minimalism – he rants about it pretty frequently in the Design of Everyday Things and uses the minimalist failures as critiques of simplicity.

Normal mainly took exception to David Heinemeier Hansson saying, “I’m not designing… for other people.” The gist behind this is that they do what Apple does, create things that work for them and hope that other people like them (as they apprently do). But Norman suggests to 37signals how they should really work:

The solution is to decide which customers represent your core audience, and then to observe them at work, the better to understand their true needs. (Not by asking them, not by questionnaires, not by focus groups). Rapid iterations of prototype and evaluation is the key. The iterative design method of rapid prototyping, test, and iteration (all done within the span of a day or so) is well defined in the Human-Computer Interaction community.

That makes me suspect that Norman hasn’t really got a grip on what 37signals do – as a quick look at the (now free) Getting Real book would show. Here’s what they say in the “Rinse and Repeat” chapter:

Instead of banking on getting everything right upfront, the iterative process lets you continue to make informed decisions as you go along. Plus, you’ll get an active app up and running quicker since you’re not striving for perfection right out the gate. The result is real feedback and real guidance on what requires your attention.

37signals strive to avoid feature bloat. There’s a reason that word processing apps like Writeroom and Mellel are increasingly popular. They’re simple and clean. I have great respect for Norman, but sometimes he seems to voice opinions that really reenforce my feeling that HCI is a terrible methodology to study interaction design. It also feels like he’s stuck between two worlds, the old consultant model and the current world of flux.

Jason Fried makes a salient point in their well-written response, comparing what they do to being chefs:

And if enough customers tell us our food is too salty or too hot, we may adjust the salt and the heat. But if some customers tell us to add bananas to our lasagna, we’re not going to make them happy at the expense of ruining the dish for everyone else. That doesn’t make us selfish. We’re just looking out for the greater good.

I think that makes sense, especially in an environment where products can and should be niche, and can and should be changed and tweaked. It’s very different from the product-based world that Norman hails from.

*Photo credit: mcdemoura

[tags]HCI, 37signals, simplicity, Norman[/tags]

In keeping with my re-release of prior interviews and articles I have written, here is the one with the good folks at 37Signals. It’s a little out of date in terms of some of the content and applications they refer to, but the wisdom is still there and worth a read.

37signals – Less is more

Back in the late 90s most web companies were busy grinding new features and technologies against the constraints of poorly designed browsers and a lack of standards. Then, in 1999, a four-person web design company called 37signals put their manifesto online and links to it started appearing everywhere. The manifesto espoused the virtues of simplicity, elegance and standards-based design as well as remaining small and focused on what they did best. “Less is more” wasn’t cool back then, but they stuck to their principles and now the rest of the web is catching up.

“Back in the 90s everyone wanted to ‘staff up’,” says founder Jason Fried. “It mystified me. We stayed on message and didn’t try to be something we weren’t. Everyone else wanted to be Razorfish or Agency.com or Organic. We wanted to be 37signals.” The four had plenty of experience working for the big guns but felt they could do a better job themselves. Although Fried and Matt Linderman are the only two left from the original team (Carlos Segura and Ernest Kim left, amicably, to pursue other careers), history has seen them left standing whilst some of the big names went under.

Most of 37signal’s work tends to be functional sites where their design approach enables people to achieve something better than they had previously. Obviously this arena is ripe for the philosophy of simplicity and functionality, but the danger is that the design can become dry and boring. It’s a fine line to tread.

“Anything can be boring in the wrong hands,” argues Fried. “Simplicity is boring when it’s only surface-level simplicity. Simplicity needs to be at the root of the solution so the answer is obvious and useful. No one is bored by something that works well, but plenty of people are bored by products or sites or interfaces that over promise and under deliver.

“It’s boring and painful to work with a product that makes you feel like you are a fool. We really like to focus on transactional sites. I guess that’s just our comfort zone, the place that we feel we can add the most value. We like to help people accomplish things.”

A look through their portfolio shows ample evidence of this approach, but the most enlightening work is their 37better project where they offer solutions, not just complaints. 37better projects are sites that 37signals has analysed and re-designed pro bono to show how it could be done. Some of the targets include banks, Google, FedEx and a vision for the future of automobile telematics.

“37BetterBank, is my favourite,” says Fried. “I’m still unimpressed by most online banking interfaces. They’ve definitely gotten better, no doubt, but there’s so much room for improvement. Most of the interfaces that I’ve seen are feature-based instead of task-based. And that’s where I think the problem lies.

“37BetterFedEx definitely garnered the most attention because it was focused on a brand instead of a general idea. And I think anyone who used the FedEx interface knew that it could be much better. They eventually redesigned it, but I think it still suffers from many of the same issues. They did contact us about our design by saying ‘Nice try, but wait till you see what we’ve got coming.’ Their current design was their answer, but I’m still not thrilled with it. Better than before, yes, but not 37better!”

It is in these areas that 37signals excel, but is the web only about achieving goals? Buying things, doing things, searching for things are all areas that the web has greatly enhanced, but interaction design and this new form of communication isn’t just about creating better tools. Sony’s Playstation 2 site, The Third Place (now offline), explored a completely difference web experience. Fried remains unconvinced and we’ll have to agree to disagree.

“For some reason bands and movies think they need to show off the latest technologies on their sites,” he says. “I don’t quite understand the correlation. You can be cool without movement. You can be cool without confusion. You can be cool without trying to hard. Bands like Wilco and Cake get that. Most others don’t.

“Why carry the metaphor of a movie over? The movie is the movie. The web site is the web site. They do different things, tell different stories, and serve different purposes. Design shouldn’t ignore context. But each their own. Flashy designy sites aren’t my cup of tea, but I’m not going to say they are wrong or bad – they just are what they are. Maybe that’s what the people want. I still believe that people want clarity, not confusion and clutter.”

37signals have also turned their design process around in an approach much more akin to product design and prototyping than graphic design. “We have a saying ‘Get Real’ which means we want to be in front of the real design (the HTML-based interface) for as long as possible. Thinking, drawing, plotting, sketching, all these things are nice, but they aren’t real. They’re abstracted from the real experience. You can’t use them. And when you can’t use them you can’t experience them. We think real design breakthroughs come from experiencing the design, tweaking, experiencing again, tweaking, etc. Great solutions come from working through the problems in the real world. It’s all about iterating the real thing until you’ve nailed it.”

A recent venture is the creation of own product, Basecamp, a web-based project management tool. It is Fried’s favourite project to date, born out of their own needs and in recognition that thousands of other companies would love the same thing. Basecamp follows the less is more strategy as opposed to Microsoft’s feature bloated, but unusable, software.

“We knew this product would help small businesses and building something like that is always a thrill,” explains Fried. “It allowed us to be our own client which meant we could do whatever we wanted, whatever we believed would be best for the product.

“It was quite a liberating experience. So much so that we’re taking on much less client work now so we can focus on serving our Basecamp customers, improving Basecamp, and building new products (like the recently released Ta-da List. I highly recommend every design shop build something for themselves beyond their own website. Build a product. Sell a product. See what the world looks like from that side. You’ll learn a ton.”

(UPDATE: It’s been a while since I originally wrote this and obviously Backpack, Basecamp, et al have gone from strength to strength as has Ruby on Rails. 37Signals really blazed a trail for smart web apps. I still disagree that the web is all about functionality and tools, but if you’re going to make tools, 37signals show the way. I can also wholeheartedly recommend their book, Getting Real, especially the chapter on why Meetings are Toxic).

This article originally appeared in the March 2005 issue of Desktop magazine. ©2005 Niche Media Pty. Ltd & Andy Polaine. N.B. This article is not covered by Playpen’s Creative Commons agreement.